by Dr. Boyce Watkins, Syracuse University – Scholarship in Action
I watched previews of the recent interview that Oprah Winfrey did with Joe and Katherine Jackson, parents of the late Michael Jackson. In the interview, Oprah asked the Jacksons a probing question that sits on the minds of millions of people: Did you beat your children? Mr. Jackson had to answer the question truthfully, since everyone knows that he did engage in the act of physically disciplining his kids. Before his confession, Joe did a little Bill Clinton-like wordplay with Oprah over exactly what she meant by the word "beat." I understood what Joe was talking about, since there is a big difference between "beating" your kids and "whoopin" them.
What I am about to say might surprise you, but if you are from a traditional African American family, it probably does not. Most black kids in my generation got "whooped" by their parents, and many of us don't regret it. Your mother "whooped" you because she loved you, perhaps with a belt, her hand or whatever creative object happened to be nearby. This is the subject of many jokes by black comedians and something with which nearly every black person in America can identify.
I'm not sure if it's right or wrong to "whoop" your kids. But I can say that "whooping" me was a way for my mother to keep me in line. Had she tried to put me in time out or simply talk me into behaving properly, I would have probably laughed in her face. Most of us have seen the kid in the grocery store who needs to be "whooped": He orders his mother around like a soldier and drives everyone else crazy with his ridiculous and loud behavior. Kids like that need to be disciplined in a way that will instill the fear of God into their little butts. They are even worse when they are teenagers, and end up becoming the kids who get caught shoplifting or having a little weed in their book bag. It only gets worse as they get older.
So, I will be the first to say that as long as Joe Jackson didn't do any long-term bodily harm to his children, I have no problem with the idea that he might have disciplined them physically. Raising boys is not easy, and I am an advocate of having a strong father figure to keep them in line. This is especially true in a world where black boys are more likely than others to be caught up in the prison system, the morgue or the unemployment line. If Joe had not disciplined his children when they were young, society would have done the disciplining for him. The difference is that society would not have been nearly as compassionate as their father.
It must also be remembered that Joe Jackson was the primary reason for the development of arguably the greatest entertainer in the history of the world. You don't get to be as great as Michael Jackson was without serious discipline. You can't have the impact that the Jackson Five had without a tremendous amount of focus, determination and commitment. So, I fully expect that Joe Jackson ran his house like a drill sergeant, but it takes that kind of leadership to do something great. So, as much as the world wants to vilify this black man for raising a good family, I want to be the first to say that he might likely be a hero. We need to get off Joe Jackson's back.
14 comments:
Hllelujah! I agree, even Michael said he loved and forgave his father and that he understood why he was so strict.
Thank you!! I am happy to read this post as Mr. Jackson has been portrayed as this monster. No one wants to be disciplined physically but in our culture we have long had the discipline of our parents who felt that was the way to keep us on the straight and narrow - not only a benefit to ourselves but also to the society in which we live. Their intentions were nothing but the best as painful as it would be for us to receive a beating, spanking, etc. Joseph Jackson loves his children as my father loved us too.
Honestly, I enjoyed the interview. Hello! That's his story and he's sticking to it. I don't think he BEAT them as in an abusive situation. He definitely SPANKED them and hat's off to him.
Eat on this people!
Pr 13:24 He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes. Pr 22:15 Foolishness is bound in the heart of a child; but the rod of correction shall drive it far from him. Pr 23:13 Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die. Pr 23:14 Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell. Pr 29:15 The rod and reproof give wisdom: but a child left to himself bringeth his mother to shame.
Enough said! I don't blame him in taking issue with the word BEAT, he did his job and each and everyone of them LOVE Joe Jackson.
Parents are to use a "rod" strap, reasonable object, so children won't look at the parent as the source of displeasure, but the ROD. God is so full of wisdom people!
TheSharperWon
Discipline is different from abuse. If he "whooped" his kids without anger in his heart, I think people would judge him more softly. But his grown children feared him, felt belittled by him, were ridiculed by him, and had to grow in order to find a place for love for him. THAT is not the "norm".
So he drove his children to incredible success, and the price was their admiration and connection to him. IMO. Please don't minimize the fact that Joe passed "discipline" miles ago, and just doesn't want it labeled as what it is, in the light of day.
I wholeheartly agree!!! I am the proud mother of a young black male. While I didn't have to whip (whoop) him often, it was necessary from time to time to remind him that rules were made for a reason. He is now 25, and after taking a couple years from college (worked the whole time) he has returned and will hopefully obtain a degree in History by this time next year. To GOD BE THE GLORY for parents who still practice discipline. My parttime job is within the penal system as a weekend court clerk and it is often quite depressing to see our young african american males and females come before the judges. Let us continue to pray for our kids and praise the Joe Jackson's of our nation. Be Blessed!
"...I will be the first to say that as long as Joe Jackson didn't do any long-term bodily harm to his children, I have no problem with the idea that he might have disciplined them physically."
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As someone who also got whoopin's as a kid, I agree that physically disciplining your kids is not necessarily a bad thing. It's often quite the opposite. But the whoopin's I received did not leave me with a lifetime of obvious psychological damage like Joe's did Michael.
While I won't argue with the notion that Joe's discipline is part of the reason Michael became such a phenomenal artist, it is somewhat irresponsible to not also recognize that Joe's discipline (which, by Michael's account, was brutal) is also the reason that Michael was so socially awkward and suffered from self-loathing so severe that he hated his own face. Joe's discipline was more than physical -- it was also verbal and psychological.
Michael was 10 years old when the Jackson 5 signed with Motown. Can you imagine the things Joe put this small, helpless child through BEFORE he reached his 10th year to get him to the point that Berry Gordy would even be interested? Outside of the physical discipline he received personally, watching Joe whoop his big brothers for things as trivial as missing a dance step after hours of rehearsal surely did immeasurable psychological damage to Michael.
When these things are considered, I can't help but to respectfully yet vigorously disagree with your assertion that Joe Jackson's style of discipline even somewhat resembled heroism. And if you believe that the massive success his extremely harsh discipline helped create somehow trumps the lifetime of damage it did to his youngest son, I truly hope that you'll reconsider that position, Dr. Boyce.
In response to MXL,
You are using a Hollywood depiction of Joe Jackson to judge him. Joe did what he had to do to save his family. Hollywood doesn't give a damn about black people and how we are portrayed.
Joe wasn't responsible for Michael's social ackwardness, it was his genius. All geniuses suffer a disconnect from "normal" people. Michael's wanting to be "white" was a reflection of him not being able to equate "blackness" with greatness. That was not Joe's problem. He didn't beat the black off Michael. We did! We have allowed others to "illegitamize" blackness and most of us can't equate blackness with greatness either.
Michael didn't want to be black, with a black wife and/or black children. Michael as great as he was, was a spoiled-ass brat that couldn't stand the fact that he was disciplined like a black child as opposed to a white child. Which, if he had his choice, he would've been.
MR JACKSON, DID THE RIGHT THING, BY KEEPING HIS KIDS IN LINE, WELL I GOT MY BUTT SPANKED IT DID NOT KILL ME, IT MADE A BETTER WOMAN OUT OF ME. I SPANKED MY SON AND HE IS DOING JUST FINE AND HE LOVE ME FOR IT. MY SON IS 39 YEARS OLD. WHAT HAPPENED TO MICHEAL JACKSON I THINK IS WHEN HIS DAD WAS NO LONGER IN CHARGE OF HIM, AND THEN THE OLD FEMALES HAD SEX WITH HIM WHEN HE WAS TO YOUNG AND DID NOT UNDERSTAND ANY THING ABOUT SEX, [YES YOU ALL KNOW WHO I AM TALKING ABOUT] SHE WAS OLD SCHOOL IN THE SEX DEPT. MANY HUSBANDS. AND THEN THE DRUGS THAT WAS MICHEAL'S PROBLEM. THEN HE DID NOT REMEMBER WHERE HE CAME FROM OR WHERE HE WAS GOING AND DID NOT WANT TO BE BLACK ANYMORE. LOL SO HE BROUGHT [PAID] FOR CHILDREN. THINK ABOUT IT. GOOD WISHES TO MR. JOE JACKSON. I WISH MR JOE JACK COULD HELP ME TO GET OUT THERE AND SING, WITH THE VERY GOOD VOICE I HAVE.
Dr. Watkins: Love your blog but I have to disagree with you, as vehemently as possible. There is absolutely NO difference between "beating" and "whuppin' ". Ask any child,; it is all abuse to them. If we cannot let our parenting develop and evolve beyond the methodology of the plantation shacks then we truly will never have any authority over our children.
Studies have shown that the majority of men and women in prison received corporal punishment, yes, a great deal of it extending to abuse, but if spanking/beating/whipping was so effective, why are our prison populations exploding? Why are our children still lacking self-discipline? The answer is simple: physical punishment is only a threat for a little while. If most of our house-holds are run by single mothers, how long do you think your 6', 195lb teenager is going to be concerned about a, 'spanking'? Establishing authority with our children begins at an early age and should not include physical, emotional or psychological abuse. Our children need love and affirmation more than any others on the planet. Then they will do anything not to disappoint us. When you raise your hand to your child--whether that hand is open or holds a switch or an ironing cord--you should hear the master screaming, "...your name is Toby nigg#$!"
If some man ever, ever puts his hands on my daughter or my grandchildren...well, he will then have first me, and the law, to deal with.
I FULLY AGREE WITH DR. MOORMAN. WE LIKE HIS MUSIC BUT MICHEAL JACKSON DID NOT LIKE BLACK PEOPLE NOR DID HE WANT TO BE BLACK. SO HE PAID BIG MONEY TO CHANGE HIS SKIN COLOR AND BROUGHT SOME WHITE CHILDREN. WHAT A DAM SHAME. THAT IS SO SAD. WHAT IS GOING WRONG WITH THE BLACK MEN NOW DAYS. LOVE EVERYDODY BUT I DON'T THINK YOU HAVE TO MOVE OUT OF YOU RACE TO DO THAT. IT IS ABOUT MONEY/SEX. STOP BEING USED. THERE ARE A LOT OF POOR BLACK CHILDREN NEED A CHANCE IN LIFE. AND THE CHILDREN NEED TO KNOW/STAY IN THEIR RACE OF PEOPLE. THIS IS A HOT MESS, WHAT IS GOING ON IN THIS WORLD. WAKE UP!!!!!!
Yes, I agree with the whoopings, I personally feel that the majority of our Black Men whom are imprisoned, had received whoopings they would not be in that dark place today... As for Michael Jackson not liking Black People or not liking himself, he was troubled a young man, who I feel was bullied about his looks. We all know what happens to a child who has been bullied..... Let the King of Pop (RIP).... LIVE, LEARN, AND LOVE -EACH OTHER.....BLESSING TO ALL....
Professor,
I generally take pride at reading your written words. As an educated Black man, I always feel emboldened and even more empowered when I see Black people succeed, but especially so when I see Black men.
But as a Black man that saw whoopings and beatings, I was more than disappointed by this piece. To assert that our parents, mother or father, could not keep us in line without beating us to death is ludicrous. In fact, given that 3/4 of all Black and Brown boys are being raised by females, I think it is exactly the WRONG wrote to take.
I have a 3 year old, an 8 year old, and a 20 year old. Whoopings have been used when there was an EXTREME situation, aka she lit matches and burned down half her grandma's house.
But my children do as I say because the bond of love and respect "keeps them in line". It took years and years to build. It took patience and time. It took more than what most parents are willing to give to their children. Yet it is absolutely what they deserve.
Let's no reinforce the cycle of violence in our youth.
Respectfully submitted,
Gregory J. White
Detroit, MI
People we need to stop being so ignorant and read more. Michael did not want to be white, in fact, Michael had a skin disease called vitilligo. He really did....now whether or not he liked himself is the question. His father had a lot to do with his low self esteem as he would always tell Michael he had a big nose....this is what we do to each other to keep someone from getting the "big head," which made Michael believe he was unattractive.
Joe went past disciplining and entered into verbal assault and attacks on his son. This kind of behavior can surely effect ones self and spirit. You can kill someone without using a bullet.
Michael was a very sensitive soul because he was highly creative and brilliant, musically. He's gonna be a little different and see things a little differently--there in lies the magic of his talent. Michael was also charismatic and the most talented. I believe Joe wanted to keep him in his place, that's why he always put him down and that is surely a plantation type of thinking.
I believe God wants us to discipline with the rod after we have taught kids and tried other ways to discipline. Spanking or whoopin a child should be the last resort unlike how African Americans have used it in the past--beating a child every time they did something wrong.
The bible also says "Fathers,(mothers) do not provoke your children to anger by the way you treat them. Rather, bring them up with the discipline and instruction that comes from the Lord." Ephesians 6:4 The word "instruction" is central here.
Joe did what he learned from his own father, however, it does not make it correct or the best method. As a race, we need to go further than spankings---discipline our children of course, but we need to learn to discipline with instruction and not always resort to beatings as a way to get them to act right. The white man did it to us, and we didn't like it---why then do we continue to do this to our own children?
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